For two years, Boris Johnson had avoided the BBC’s current affairs flagship, Radio 4’s Today programme.
But last October, during the Conservative Party conference, he agreed to be interviewed — and it was Nick Robinson, lead presenter on Today, who was his interlocutor.
Johnson and Robinson were locked together across the microphones, and over 6.5 million people listened in anticipation of a forensic interview with the Prime Minister.
However, instead of turning into a comedy, the interview degenerated quickly and the two men started to speak over each other.
‘I haven’t had the chance to make this point on your show in two years,’ Johnson protested.
The fact is, the pair have history — stretching back almost 40 years to when they were students at Oxford University and members of the hallowed debating society, the Oxford Union
‘That was your choice, not ours,’ shot back Robinson.
This moment has been the subject of much discussion since then.
‘Prime Minister, you are going to pause!’ demanded Robinson. ‘Prime Minister. Stop. Talking.’
‘Very kind of you to let me talk,’ said Johnson sarcastically, as he exited the studio. ‘What was the point in inviting me on your show?’
Robinson acknowledged afterwards that some listeners ‘may have just been slightly offended by me telling the Prime Minister to “stop talking” . . . the truth is he’s a great communicator [but] he’s not a man who [always]Loves the simplicity of a question and answer. . . is he?’
Listeners were left feeling that this was not a routine ‘cut-and-thrust’ encounter between politician and journalist but perhaps rather more personal.
The fact is, the pair have history — stretching back almost 40 years to when they were students at Oxford University and members of the hallowed debating society, the Oxford Union.
These past few weeks, amid Partygate allegations, the chemistry between Johnson and the state broadcaster’s most high-profile political interrogator has become a hot issue, with many questioning both the BBC’s political impartiality and the Government’s announcement that it will freeze the Corporation’s licence fee for two years.
Indeed, Robinson has only added to the febrile mood by questioning whether Johnson’s mea culpa in the Commons over Partygate ‘really was an apology’ and suggesting that ‘most people’ thought the PM was only saying sorry because he had been caught.
It is being wondered if these tense exchanges are due to rivalries between the two brilliant and ambitious Oxford students.
Many wonder if these tense exchanges between rival Oxford students are due to their ambitions.
For his part, Robinson rubbishes any such suggestion, saying: ‘I think that Boris Johnson would be as baffled by this as I am. At university, we weren’t rivals nor enemies. We were just two student debaters . . .’
However, there are some intriguing aspects to this claim that deserve attention.
Both men began their university careers in 1983, a brash, ‘loadsamoney’ era under a Thatcher government — and both were Tories. Johnson read classics at Balliol, while Robinson studied politics, philosophy and economics — the ‘PPE’ degree so beloved of political wonks — at University College.
Dafydd, a photographer who was employed by Tatler, remembers feeling drawn to Johnson. He is a young, strikingly blonde man that he first saw at parties wearing the unique Bullingdon Club dress.
He says the Old Etonian was ‘quiet and polite’, adding: ‘He didn’t have this loud, jokey, boisterous persona back then. He was charming — but less confident.’
Meanwhile, Robinson, who came from Macclesfield and attended Cheadle Hulme Grammar School, had confidence by the bucketload and was awarded the title ‘Pushy Fresher of the Year’, a contest started by then fellow student Michael Crick (now Mail Plus political correspondent).
Crick recalls: ‘Every autumn there were always a few first-year undergraduates who loudly declared their ambition to take over every student institution.
Robinson, who came from Macclesfield and attended Cheadle Hulme Grammar School, had confidence by the bucketload and was awarded the title ‘Pushy Fresher of the Year’, a contest started by then fellow student Michael Crick
‘Our contest was designed to bring these obnoxious, arrogant upstarts down a peg or two.’
Undaunted, Robinson soon became a member of the Oxford Union’s standing committee, and was photographed in a group shot with fellow committee member Johnson in the summer of 1985.
Alongside them was the union’s then president, Neil Sherlock, who had fought off Johnson’s bid for the post the previous year and who went on to become special adviser to Nick Clegg when he was made deputy prime minister.
Sherlock says: ‘During one debate, the three of us all spoke on the same side against the motion “This house calls for a non-nuclear defence policy for Britain”.’
Johnson and Robinson were both considered so formidable that David Cameron, who was two years below them, later recalled: ‘I visited the Oxford Union a few times, and saw stars like Boris Johnson, already a very funny speaker, and masters of debate like Nick Robinson.’
The Oxford Union has long been renowned for its eclectic mix of VIP guest speakers — including Albert Einstein, Mother Teresa, the Dalai Lama . . . and model Katie Price.
Johnson read classics at Balliol, while Robinson studied politics, philosophy and economics — the ‘PPE’ degree so beloved of political wonks — at University College
This has been an ideal place to train students who are interested in a career at Westminster and Whitehall.
Toby Young, a journalist and social commentator was contemporaneous with Johnson and Robinson.
He says: ‘There was a lot of what was called “hacking” — jockeying for position and votes.
‘It was a playground version of the House of Commons tearoom — a lot of socialising which appeared friendly and convivial was actually all about winning political battles.’
Johnson knew this better than any other person. Johnson ran for the office again in 1985 after his failed attempt to become president of Oxford Union.
He resigned from his Conservative allies and joined the popular Social Democratic Party, which he founded to appeal to students of liberal faith. He was at the forefront of later political change that would mark his career.
‘I had not the faintest clue that Boris was a Conservative,’ Robinson told Johnson’s biographer Sonia Purnell in 2011.
The Oxford Union has long been renowned for its eclectic mix of VIP guest speakers — including Albert Einstein, Mother Teresa, the Dalai Lama . . . and model Katie Price
‘Indeed, I would have told you, if you had asked me at the time, that he was a supporter of the SDP/Liberal Alliance.
‘I think he must have taken the decision not to be seen as a Tory because he knew to do so would be to lose’.
Johnson’s tactics paid off and he became Oxford Union president. With his girlfriend (and later first wife) Allegra Mostyn-Owen —a Tatler cover girl and the ‘most beautiful girl on campus’ — Johnson was soon a ‘Big Deal’ at Oxford.
Georgia Coleridge, who was friends with his sister Rachel, says: ‘As Oxford Union president, Boris had to invite guest speakers such as Cabinet ministers and famous writers, and entertain them when they arrived.’
As Johnson entered the Student Debating Chamber with starry guests and all eyes were on him, Nick Robinson was not there.
‘I am sure he was a candidate for the Oxford Union presidency, but never made it,’ says Toby Young.
‘That could partly be fuelling his animosity towards Boris. Being Oxford Union president was the equivalent of being Prime Minister at Oxford.’
Similarly, Michael Crick recalls: ‘Nick Robinson had the lesser post of treasurer of the Oxford Union. He would certainly have tried to become president — he’s the most ambitious man in the world.’
Neil Sherlock, ex-president of the union, insists there is no rivalry. Robinson was always determined to run Oxford University Conservative Association. (OUCA), he became president.
‘Nick overwhelmingly was fighting for OUCA and Boris for the union,’ he said.
It’s amazing! The irony! While the current Tory Prime Minister aligned himself with the SDP as a student, the BBC’s future presenter was a staunch Conservative.
Robinson was a member of the Tory Reform Group (TRG) and known as a Tory ‘Wet’, unlike Thatcherite members who referred to him as ‘Red Robbo’ or ‘Wet Nickers’.
Toby Young says: ‘Within the Oxford University Conservative Association, there were factions. Nick was the leader of this faction.
‘It was on that basis that he became president of OUCA, but never president of the Oxford Union.’
Famously, Johnson was five when he said he wanted to grow up to be ‘world king’.
In contrast, as a precocious eight-year-old, Nick Robinson had already decided he wanted to be a journalist, thanks to the influence of his best friend’s father, the legendary Today presenter Brian Redhead.
However, many of their colleagues believed that their careers would go the opposite way.
‘I always thought at university that Nick Robinson would be the big political star and Boris Johnson would be a journalist,’ said Neil Sherlock.
‘If, in 1984-85, you told me that Boris Johnson was going to be PM, I would have been very surprised . . . I would have said Nick.’
Georgia Coleridge, who was friends with his sister Rachel, says: ‘As Oxford Union president, Boris had to invite guest speakers such as Cabinet ministers and famous writers, and entertain them when they arrived.’
Andrew Gimson, Johnson’s biographer, agrees: ‘People in those days actually thought Nick would be Prime Minister.’
Frank Luntz (the leading U.S. pundit/polster) is our final mention.
‘I always thought Boris would be prime minister,’ he told the Mail yesterday. ‘But both of them are the most talented debaters I ever saw. Boris gave the best speech; Nick gave the best intervention.’
His recollection is that the two men’s relationship depended ‘on the day of the week’.
‘Sometimes they were friends. They were sometimes rivals. But they both respected each other’s talents,’ Luntz says.
‘As an American, I never heard or saw anything like them. They were far superior to what our students could do.’
Perhaps that’s all there is. A political Big Beast — Boris Johnson — and his journalistic equivalent — Nick Robinson — simply reliving their glory days at the Oxford Union. Maybe not. . .